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[00:00:00] Welcome to WTF The Other F Word podcast with Woo. Doctora Leslie Sotomayor II And Dr. Katie Ballard. Well, this is... So we wanna welcome all of everyone- ... and friends, and we're so glad you're here. And, um, anyway, this is gonna be our first episode of WTF The Other F Word podcast, and we wanna begin by introducing ourselves and sharing a little bit about what this space is and why we felt called to create it.
So we, um, Doctora [00:01:00] Leslie C. Sotomayor II, 'cause my mom is the first, and Do- Oh, sorry. It's okay. And Dr. Katie Ballard. Um, we are super excited about this, and this podcast grows out of the conversations that we've been having with each other for years about teaching, learning, identity, care, resistance, and the many ways we show up in our work and in our communities and in our relationships Very much in our relationship.
So at its heart, this podcast is gonna be about making room for honest and sometimes difficult conversations. It's about the things that we carry with us, the questions we keep returning to, and the experiences that shape how we move through the world as educators, as researchers, and human beings, and so much more.
Mothers, and makers, and friends, and family. And so we wanted this to be a space that feels thoughtful [00:02:00] and real, and maybe even a little bit unruly. Um, some, some laughs and some tears and, and just to be here for each other. Absolutely. We also are thinking about this space very intentionally as a space for femtorship.
And if you are not familiar with that word, that is totally okay because femtorship is something that we're going to be returning to and talking about in depth in, um, subsequent episodes. But it's a place where we can offer care, wisdom, honesty, authenticity, mutual learning, not from a distance, but in relationship, too.
And for us, femtorship means creating space for each other and for our listeners to grow, reflect, and feel less alone in the work that we do and the lives that we live. And, um, in future episodes of this podcast, we'll be [00:03:00] taking, um, uh, talking, sorry, about the ideas and tensions that live at the intersections of feminism, community, and care, and sharing stories, reflections, and conversations that matter to us and we hope matter to you, our listeners.
And, um, we'll be bringing others in with us to share. And, um, so yeah, creating, again, that space where we can talk about difficult, beautiful connections in our lives. So this first episode is really just an invitation. It's an invitation for you to get to know us, and hopefully for you to listen in and also join us, and we wanna list- uh, hear from you all, um, as we build and are on this journey of life together.
We're really glad that you're here. Yes. And, um, coming up with the term for the podcast, we had some [00:04:00] fun, um, talking about names and titles. So what is WTF: The Other We- F Word, and why did we use that title? Um- Yeah. So if anyone knows us, um, Katie and I are really terrible at coming up with titles. We're so bad.
We're so bad. We have, we, we have curated our exhibits together. We have, um, created art together. We have done conferences and published work together. And by far, the hardest thing about all of those things- ... is coming up with a title. Yeah. So when this was incubating and we were trying to figure out, all right, what do we call this, right, we were having a really hard time with it.
But we eventually, what felt like eons, ... came up with [00:05:00] the name WTF: The Other F Word. And so we wanted to riff off of WTF, right, what the fuck, and we wanted to riff on that through a feminist perspective, right? And thinking about how many F words can you think of, right? Yeah. We had so much fun sitting on your porch going-
family, friends, fellatio. I think fellatio came up. Sorry. And, um, yeah, just trying to kind of play with the word. And, and I love the second half, the other F word. Again, the idea that feminism is on the level of, of fuck in... Sometimes it's such a loaded term. Right. And I think part of being here together is to talk about those myths and stereotypes around feminism, and to, uh, to take away some of that fear and to really look at what, um, what that means.
And so, yeah, I loved the play on- [00:06:00] Yeah. And, you know, maybe, maybe you can re- re- relate that- Have you ever been in a situation where you say that maybe you identify as a feminist, or maybe you are bringing up a feminist, quote-unquote, topic, and, you know, you get some weird looks, or there's crickets, right?
And people react to it in a lot of different, different ways, right? So it feels like this, this language, this word that gets dropped, and sometimes it's not received in the best way, right? And so we, um, are intentionally reframing this, right? And what does feminist mean to you? What does it mean to us? What have been our experiences?
And we're also connecting feminist with the word femtor, right? The other F word, feminist, but also the other F word, femtor, right? And so we use the word femtor instead of mentor very [00:07:00] intentionally because it feels more aligned with the kind of support that Katie and I are interested in naming here. For us, femtor is about care, shared experience, and showing up for one another in a way that feels personal and grounded.
It directly stems from our lived experiences as women identifying individuals and relationally with other women identifying humans, but not limited to these positionalities. We're not just talking about women here. Um, and it's actually inclusive con- conversations that we hope to, um, expand on thinking about LGBT plus on a spectrum of our identities that are often underrepresented and underserved Yeah.
Um, thank you, Leslie. And g- going back a little to, to feminism, I think back to Roxane Gay's, um, Bad Feminist, and that idea that if you don't fit into a perfect little box of what [00:08:00] you or society has decided, um, about feminism, then you just can't be. Like, you like videos that maybe show women a little sexy, or, you know, there's a movie that you like that you don't think should fit into the feminist thought and theory.
I'm that way. I definitely find myself laughing at things, and I'm like, "Ooh, ooh, should a feminist laugh at that?" And then it bothers me that that's even a thought that I have because, um, I identify as a feminist, and I look at the world- Absolutely ... through a feminist lens. And, um, what that means is I get to be aware of those things- Yeah
and to talk through them with others. But yeah, femtor. I, I remember when we first started talking about another show we curated, um, Hide and Seek in Lubbock, Texas. It, I realized that Leslie was very much a femtor to me. I had been away from [00:09:00] academia, um, in the sense of writing and publishing, and, um, she was definitely a femtor- Mm
for me in my life. But maybe unpacking, like, how we define that relationally, right? And, and who- Who are our femtors, right? What lineage are we talking about here? Who are these people, right? What do they look like? What do they act like? So we're gonna be unpacking that, um, in this podcast as one of the, the core subjects.
Um, so we thought next maybe in getting to know each other, right, uh, we could say a little bit about who we are. So Katie, do you wanna kick us off? Like, introduce yourself. What are the, what are the words that- ... are descriptive of Katie? Ah, thank you. Um, well, we've introduced ourselves as doctors, and I think we did that intentionally with the idea to, to share that we have been through a lot to get to where we are.
Um, I [00:10:00] identify as a queer artist, activist, um, educator, academic, and mother. Um, I have a 21-year-old in college. I'm a wife, um, and a baker. Oh, that was another thing. Leslie and I have baked- Yeah ... together a few times. Um, but I come from Texas, a pretty conservative part of the country, and as I went through my academic journey, I ended up at a university getting my PhD in fine arts.
And my original goal was to get, um... was to focus on rethinking museum education. And my brother and I and my sister-in-law were all photographers and did a series of photographs on drag culture in, uh, Lubbock, Texas because of a friend of mine and conversation of our drag culture. So I ended up doing my dissertation, uh, Queens of the South Plains, um, collected oral histories of drag performers in Lubbock, Texas, [00:11:00] and it really just changed everything about my work and the, the direction of my research, my teaching.
So I ended up taking a lot of women and gender studies courses. And when I got there, I was like, wow, other people who see the world the way I do, you know, questioning who's represented in media, who isn't, our visual culture, um, who's written about. And I also was focusing on art history and wondering, where are the female artists or anybody of underserved and underrepresented identities in the art world?
Um, so and then I ended up in Taos, New Mexico, helping run Taos Pride and reconnected with Leslie and started getting more into academic work. And three years ago, we had an idea to do this, and here we are finally making it happen. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, so my words [00:12:00] would be Definitely, right, PhD. Um, I did my PhDs.
I did a dual in art education and women's gender and sexuality studies, um, with a focus on Latino, Latina, and Latinx studies, and really thinking about, um, not only, um, underrepresented, um, demographics of Chicana and Latina, um, populations in the United States, but also understanding a zoomed out view of, um, diaspora and connection to Latin America and the Caribbean, and then my own ancestry and heritage, right?
And, um, my own history that I didn't know until much later in life a lot of, um, in a lot of ways. And so, um, so that's a really big part of, of my identity, um, that is intersected with being an artist, being a curator, being a mother, being a caregiver, [00:13:00] um, being a friend, right? Um, so, you know, and, and these intersecting identities are, are constantly in flux.
They're, they're fluid. They flow, right? And, um, you know, I might identify as a researcher, a scholar, you know, at, um, that might be dominant in some times in my life, but it's not always like that, right? And, um, so I'm really, I'm really, um, thinking about, um, how our Intersectional identity and experiences shape and impact, um, not only who we are as individuals and the inner reflective work, but also relationally, right?
What does that mean in conjunction with my family, my friends, the community I live in, where I work, right? How I'm, um, how I'm parenting and how I'm mothering, right? [00:14:00] Um, and so broadly, um, that's, that's a little bit about, about my, my background and where I come from. My father was from Puerto Rico, my mother's from Cuba, and so I grew up in, um, you know, a very traditional Hispanic, um, conservative, um, household in, you know, New Jersey, and then we moved to Pennsylvania, and I have floated around in a few places, but right now I'm in, um, Pennsyl- Pennsylvania and Eastern PA.
Um, and, um, thinking about where I'm geographically located, but then also all of these points of connection, right? With Katie in New Mexico, and I have friends all over the world, right? A lot of us, um, have these relationships that are, um [00:15:00] diasporic in some, in some way, right? And they're also informing our own identity and, um, critical questions.
Mm. So, so what does all of that and this right? Um, what does all of this have to do with this work, right? Creating a podcast. Um, and so, you know, we both, Katie and I, have the art and art education background, feminist background, right? Um, we have the research background, the community, the mothering, um, the caregiving, um, and community practices, right?
Um, and Katie's is very much in activism, um, with the LGBT community. Um, mine is community through BIPOC, right? Black indigenous people of color and, um, creative spaces. Um, and so what... You know, how did we get here, right? How did our lived experiences shape [00:16:00] how we think, we teach? We both teach, um, you know, d- uh, undergrad and grad classes.
Um, and, and we also are makers, right? Whether it's in the kitchen baking or cooking or painting or creating with mud somewhere or s- right? Um- Yeah, I do. I do ceramics. Yeah. And I haven't been making, Leslie. That's- Yeah ... part of this. We could push each other to make art. Yes. Yeah. And everybody else, all our listeners.
Right. And that's, that's what we mean by creative practice, right? Like, we're making, whether that's music, meditation, writing, clay, right? Yeah. Whatever that is. Yeah. That's making, right? Um- Gardening. Yeah. Gardening. So, so how did, um... Yeah, so how did we get into this work, Katie? What were we thinking? Um, well how far back do you want to go?
I was thinking you asked me to attend a talk for a show you curated- [00:17:00] And it was after that, because you were talking about how your daughter was there with you during the install. Yes. And- So my fourth child, yeah, and she was little. She was just, I don't know, like five or something. She was little. You know.
Yeah. And that, you know, going there and we were talking about how often we might see, um, men with their children while trying to install a show. And I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I remember taking my daughter everywhere. Yes. Um, when I had to work, when I was doing shows, when I was going to events, um, Oliver was always with me.
Yeah. Uh, so we started that and then we were talking about mothering and we were talking about baking and all these different things and, um, I was gonna come to, to Lubbock and we were gonna, I think, meet for the first time in person. Yeah. So that kind of- 'Cause before that it was virtual. You were helping me, like, get set up with my new job there and all these other things, and that's how we met.
Mm-hmm. But, um, but one of the real- [00:18:00] the things that sticks out from that conversation in the gallery space that you moderated with the artist at the art exhibit was that- There is this very real feeling that I have always experienced, and Katie was able to, like, highlight and, and say, "Yeah, I know exactly how you feel because I have felt it too," of when you're an artist, there is this unspoken expectation and assumption that there are no children in sight attached to the artist.
Right. Right? And so I didn't have that option, right? Like, I am a single mother, right? So I have ... My daughter is with me. And so whether that's in the studio making, right, giving a talk at an art exhibit, at an opening, at a [00:19:00] meeting, cooking, baking, right, whatever, my child is with me. And I, I felt very intimidated about that for a very long time.
I have four children. And I came to a point where it was like, "You know what? Fuck this. This is who I am. I'm a mom," right? "And I cannot not do these things because it makes you feel uncomfortable or the space doesn't, quote-unquote, 'allow for it,'" right? And so that's ... You know, I felt, I felt seen. I felt visible when Katie and I started talking about these things because it was like she, you know, she, she validated that and she said, "I know exactly how you feel because I have felt like that too," right?
Mm-hmm. And so- Yeah ... um, so, so that was one of the, the really big things that stands out to me from when we met in person, right, and, and had those experiences. Yeah. I [00:20:00] remember I got there late and I was, like, running across town to get to the art show- ... 'cause I was so excited to meet you in person. And, um, I couldn't have guessed where our relationship was gonna go, but I kind of felt- Mm
something special was gonna happen. Well, a connection. So. Totally. And the other, I think the other part of this that I wanted to, you know, make sure that we address, and, and we can, you know, unpack in, in future episodes in more depth, but femtorship also is in connection to a larger lineage and scholarship of feminist intersectional Latinx and Xicana X, um, ways of knowing, knowledge building, community building, relationship, and collective support- That is really deep and really refle- inner reflective, but also external connections.
And it's less about being an expert in any one thing- Mm ... but it's all about learning from each other and with each other, [00:21:00] right? And I think that that's the really important, um, part of when we say femtorship that we're really stressing, right? Like, we are learning from each other when we're jumping on a Zoom call and having these conversations.
We are learning from each other when we are baking together. We're learning from each other when, you know, we send memes. So many reels. Um- So many memes, right? But yeah, I think that's the new way of showing friendship sometime. It's like, "I don't have time for other things, but here's a cute video." Yeah. Um, no, I love that, and I think I mentioned this again, that linear femtorship that I got with you.
But then thinking back to my... And, and I would call Ed Check my femtor- Mm-hmm ... um, because he was this just amazing man. But he's where I really connected with feminism. Yeah. And I actually came out because of the research I was doing. I finally was like, "Okay, I'm [00:22:00] gay. Let's just..." My brother, uh, also, um... Well, I don't wanna out.
I f- that'll be his story to share. But, um, anyway, I just remember that it's, yeah, it's these strong people in my life, my, my mother, especially my grandfather. I called him Papa. He, he taught me how to read, how to tie my shoe. He put himself through college in the Great Depression. And so education was really important to him when it wasn't necessarily with, with others, um, in my family.
And so just this long line of, of people in my life that were my femtors, and then also queer femtors, um, that I, that I knew in person and that I've read about. So yeah, I'm excited really to focus on femtorship and, and the other F word, all the F words. Well, and I think that it forms this umbrella, right?
Feminism, femtorship is kind of this umbrella that Katie and I are kind of [00:23:00] holding together as we're standing side by side. And right, and all of these other things, you know, kind of come out of that. Um, and we also feel like it's really important to talk about the things that- A lot of times we're thinking, but we're not talking about, right?
And so how do we make the invisible visible, right? That's why we wanted to do a podcast because we were like, "Hey," like, "we're noticing that we are having all these conversations," right? With our students, right? Um, with the people we work with, with our kids, right? With our friends, and they're coming about in these organic, right, ways.
They're not planned. They're not scripted. No. Right? But we're realizing that, oh, we need to, like, talk about these things. We need to have some type of language and [00:24:00] vocabulary, um, that we can learn from each other with, right? Right. And yeah, those organic moments. You know, coming back from an art show in Fort Garland, and I'm in the car with three women, two in their 70s, and they're talking about their experience growing up and being moms and having partners that expected them to fill up their water glass, and asking questions of me, and then I, of course, am asking questions of them.
And it's that consciousness-raising where you're sitting with other people asking these same questions. And when Leslie and I, we, we put together a little bit of a survey to ask people, you know, what they're interested in when it comes to feminism, femtorship. Community was one of the top sub- or top reasons that people would be interested in learning about this, and that really struck me 'cause I didn't necessarily think that that's where people were going.
But it shows how much people need these [00:25:00] connections. Um- Absolutely, yeah. And why, you know, we're doing this, we're starting this, launching this in 2026, and, you know, Katie and I are both- Affiliated with different institutions. Mm-hmm. Right? We're affiliated with education in the United States of America in different ways.
And why, why is it important to, for us to talk about this, to have these con- conversations when, right, a lot of it is that we're being challenged not to have these conversations, right? Um- Yeah ... but we feel it's important to have more spaces, not taking them away. Right. And I guess that's that part of the community.
I've been teaching women and gender studies, intro, intersectional feminism, our class with the great title, um, what is it, Guerrilla Girls to [00:26:00] RuPaul: The Politics of Feminist Art. Mm-hmm. And we were really allowed, you know, and I shouldn't say allowed. We pushed to teach- Mm-hmm ... classes that brought up these subjects and, you know, students, they end up getting minors in WGS, and they just share how powerful these courses were.
And now universities are actively banning women and gender studies. They're, they're getting rid of programs that are 45 years old. Mm-hmm. Um, and, you know, we need to fight there in academia, but also get back to taking feminism out of academia and taking it back into the community where it began. Mm-hmm.
Um, and so yeah, directly under attack. Trans, um, individuals under attack, um, LGBTQ, people of color. I mean, it's, it's terrible and so now I think just felt like the right time to, to create [00:27:00] this, to create that community space where we can talk. Yeah All right, so we don't wanna end part one on a downer I know, sorry.
But it's a very serious note that we're... right? And this is, um, but we hope that you'll join us for part two, where we're gonna continue the conversation about, um, all the things and, and our introduction about who we are and where we're coming from. Um, so I hope that you tune in for part two of our introduction podcast.
Yeah, I'm really excited. And s- yes, sorry about that, Leslie, but, um, definitely excited- Mm ... to explore all the positives. So just wanted to say that we're gonna be talking about a lot of different themes in future podcasts, um, some that we touched on here and some we didn't. Pedagogy, um, art making, identity, joy, burnout, resistance.
I already have to, I've gotta throw boundaries in there. Mm-hmm. Um, Brene [00:28:00] Brown. Yeah. And, um, just bringing in different voices. Um, and you can expect in future episodes, you know, more of these topics, but we're gonna be dropping new episodes about every two weeks. Mm-hmm. Um, this is something new to us, but we both work full-time.
Yeah. Um, I'm a full-time wife, Leslie's a full-time mom, and so we'll be here as soon, as much as we can. And if you wanna engage with us, we'll ha- be on Instagram and Facebook. Mm-hmm. Leslie, what are our Instagram and Facebook? We are wtf.theotherfword, all lowercase. Got it. And then- Yeah ... for Facebook, uh, it's the same for Facebook and Instagram.
Oh. We made it easy. We were very strategic and smart to do that. Leslie was strategic and smart to do that. So much stuff to learn when doing this. Oh, my gosh, yes. But it's actually been really, really cool. Yeah. Um, [00:29:00] so yeah, we'll try to be here, um, every two weeks. Yes. So if, if anything we've shared today resonates with you, then we really hope you'll join us for future podcasts as we unpack some amazing things and have some laughs and some tears and- Yeah
a good time. And fun. We have fun together- Of course ... so. There's the other F word. Yes. WTF fun. Well, wait. Okay, so it's Where's the Feminism? The Other F Word, guys. The other F word. I, I realize we might not have said that, so. Right. All right. Till the next one. We'll see you next time.
